A read-only archive of discourse.darkjedibrotherhood.com as of Sunday May 01, 2022.

PoBs - excellent or grinding?


I posted this on the recent gaming update, #34.5, but I’ll repost here to avoid a flood of comments.

With the recent addition of Star Conflict to the PoB guidelines, I am wondering just how true it is that they are, as I was told not so long ago by the FIST, still for gaming excellence.

I’m not aware of the full history of the award, as I was Rogued during its creation as the Elite Cluster of Fire and its early days under the newer name. However, I remember it well that they were awarded for coming top of the gaming stats on a weekly basis. This is perhaps the definition of excellence, although with the addition of Pazaak, that is perhaps debatable.

My issue here is that the PoBs for ToR, D3, Destiny and SC aren’t so much about excellence, and more about grinding, especially in the case of ToR. Even a completely unskilled player is thus able to secure a large number of supposed excellence awards simply for putting a large amount of time in.

My question is - could some kind of system for ‘grinding’ PoBs be put in place in other games? I know of people who’ve earned hundreds of CFs through the more traditional PvP gaming, but do not have the PoBs to show for what is most definitely excellence. Should I, or others, be able to play the SP missions in games such as X-Wing Alliance and be able to earn PoBs? How about playing the coop missions that come with X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter?

My point really here is that the PoB has become a ‘dual’ medal. You earn them for being great at PvP, or for having the time to play other games. Perhaps a split is in order here?


Well then, I shall post a few of my thoughts on the matter.

The ideal of the Pendant of Blood as a award of skill is a noble one. It is of this opinion that I personally favour. However, it cannot be denied that the current Pendant of Blood can be earned without the competitive skill in combat, but rather repeated grinding.

Of course, in any said game, no matter what, we must look at the larger whole. As, let us take a look at Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. Said players can repeatedly spar against only people of lesser skill repeatedly, or the same exact person constantly on a day to day basis. They can then rack up quite a few wins, and earn a Pendant of Blood.

We can also look at Pazaak. It is something that takes quite much less input than Jedi Academy. It is a basic, generalized card game from Star Wars, and one that I do not personally like.

ToR is a MMORPG. MMORPG’s are not the sort of games that require much, if any skill in general play. Of course, their are certain players who can break the game down(Such as Runescapes turn based ticks, and calculating upon that), the mathematical formula of a MMORPG…The carefully built Character, weapon switching, and what not. However, it is much less a competitive game than lets say, Quake, and more of a generalized game to appeal to the masses. Something that is easy for people to get into without much of a learning curve, lots of “Rewards”, and what not. MMORPG’s ultimately are something in which one can wait while for the most efficient ways of doing things are discovered, research, and repeat. Nothing is of course wrong with this, but they are quite linear grindfests. I sincerely doubt a lot of players genuinely break the game down to a more mathematical level, as some people do in these games at the highest levels, and even the reward for breaking the game down is quite little in general mainstream play.

Star Craft is a competitive game. Completely competitive, it is a sport in numerous countries with massive tournaments with monetary awards. Very excellent as a game.

Of course, I do understand your question. Your asking for their to be a difference between the Generalized PVP award, and a award of a higher tier, something of absolute excellence in relation to competitive play against players. However, the “Grinding”, or the award that you seek will not have the absolute value due to the above which i said. Of course, awards and medals do mean quite little. Its all about the fun :P.

Of course, of what kind of excellence? How much is a award worth ultimately? A “Unskilled” player in relation to PVP can still obtain the “New PVP award” by what I have said before. Trying to create some sort of medal for the higher level you are thinking of, in which it has the implied value of what you want, requires more than simply another medal. It requires a set community in a set game of competitive standards that are constantly being pushed up, and the people in said community being challenged daily. Such a thing would increase the worth of X award.

Too long to read? Grinding can exist in any game, and all games. Even StarCraft. The value of such a award is not in the award itself, but rather the people and or the community surrounding it, or the tasks. I recall ToR has some sort of PVP, as well as said other games. However, I am going to withdraw myself a bit. All games played, one can play all games and technically grind, or play “Skillfully”.

Ultimately, just some random feedback I thought I would provide in rant form. If you earned a PoB through skillful play, it will have immense value. If otherwise, is it cheapened or less? You decide, I report! Artistic News!

Anywhose. ./End rant. I just woke up. A higher end medal would require said system of competitive play to have the “Supreme value of Excellence”. ./Me Shrugs. Ultimately, its all ego. Medals/Pixels. Very pretty, very nice, but the value is in the person themselves. The people matter the most, and are awesome. Feedback is interesting in all organizations, but one should be able to look past such things and into the heart of the matter and people, and gain the true value of playing a game/With other people/Etc.

Flow with what is.


Well, @Andrelious, Bentre’s been taking some time to think over his response to this earlier post. More time than might be warranted in the mind of some folk, but summer can be a busy time for me. But I digress.

I would like to take a moment to interject my opinion. I stress, this is my opinion, and only my opinion. It is mine and mine only, and I am the master of it.
I do see a bit of your point about how it could cause one a little irritation that a player could metaphorically bash their head against a wall- dying repeatedly and failing hundreds of times- and still earn a Penchant of Blood which you toiled in many PvP matches to attain. I could even perhaps argue that I could be considered one such player- I will be the first to tell you I am not the most technical nor most skilled of players in most any given game. I had many pitfalls and failings on my way to becoming a half-decent tank in ToR, for example. I still managed to climb my way up to level 55 with tenacity, and having good team members to help me along the way.
So I suppose that perhaps my efforts would not be considered as noteworthy as someone who spent hours in PvP building Valor and sharpening their skills.
A lot of my thought surrounds a similar point to what @Artorias had said.

An award for excellence here, or a bit of recognition there is nice.
But are there really so many people who might gain a PoB by tenacity and/or grinding that would sully the fun and memories that one finds in going after such awards?


Perhaps there might be a separate award created, or a split as you said, but would it really be worth it in the end? My big concern is if we are going to create a schism of sorts, or a segregation of gaming, over a few pretty baubles?

Just my thoughts. Take them as you will, and I welcome further discussion.



Prettymuch. Hence why most of my rant is meaningless and or silly when you really look at it ;P. The memories and the like.


As soon as the PoB was awarded for reaching a milestone, the pretense about it being a medal representing excellence went out the window as far as I’m concerned. Debate whether that’s a good or bad thing yourselves, but everything gaming related it seems, from the PoB to the GMRG has moved away from recognizing achievement, and is now about recognizing a grind.

Even when they’re awarded for PVP, just as often as not they’re awarded for the person who played the most matches. I don’t think we need to invent another medal to try to stop the ship that already sailed. Just recognize what the new order is, and drop the pretense that it’s something it isn’t. That’s my thoughts on the matter anyways.


Oh, I forgot about that.

Aye. Greek fire.